This morning, I read the following statement from Nine Inch Nails’ Trent Reznor, taken from his longer “ramble” at the official NIN forums and linked to via his Twitter stream:
I will be tuning out of the social networking sites because at the end of the day it’s now doing more harm than good in the bigger picture and the experiment seems to have yielded a result. Idiots rule.
Photo by Mark Trammell
His is a common and frustrating conclusion so many of us seem to come to after submersing ourselves in online communities for any prolonged length of time.
Why are people such jerks? Really… I want to know.
I’ve been following Trent’s work (can I call him Trent? I’m going to call him Trent) since I was in high school. You could say I’m a really, really big fan. And I wholly admit that within the past year I’ve gotten a much different (shockingly, at times) impression of what kind of person he is from reading his tweets and keeping up with his activities through nin.com. Yes, Trent is a real person who is clearly not living a live-action version of his music’s lyrics. He’s in love, for example, and he gushes about his fiancee regularly. He’s been sober for eight years. He raises money for people who need it. He makes geeky references. He makes jokes. He lashes out at people who upset him. He seems like a pretty normal, stand-up guy, not a reflection of his stage persona. Not anymore anyway, if that was ever the case.
And yet, like so many of us before him, Trent feels defeated by the internet troll brigade. Because that’s what happens when you spend enough time online and develop a following. People relish in the anonymity of modern communication and behave badly. Honestly, I don’t know anyone with any web/tech notoriety who hasn’t experienced this. Women have it particularly rough IMO, but obviously anyone can be a target…. especially if they’re famous, good looking, or have something interesting to say.
But I don’t think idiots rule, and it’s disappointing to hear that someone I’ve admired and respected for a long time feels that way, because I too am very much a part of this community. Negative people just… stand out. I can get 45 positive comments on a blog post, and the 46th comment that points out how ugly or fat or stupid I am (just recently, someone publicly tweeted that my mere existence was too much for her) will ruin my day. I’m just used to it now. Which is totally backward and sucky, by the way. Nobody should have to get used to that. It’s like being beat up, all the time.
So.. why are people such jerks? Why do this to each other? Why ruin anyone’s day? Why scare away a really cool guy like Trent Reznor from BEING ONE OF US?
Really… I want to know.
June 10th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
This is the same Trent Reznor who tweeted, ““You know that feeling you get when somebody embarrasses themselves so badly YOU feel uncomfortable? Heard Chris Cornell’s record? Jesus.” Sound an awful lot like the pot calling the kettle black.
But yeah. The internet is full of bored people with nothing better to do. If you think the internet is bad, try Xbox Live.
I think you’re great, Sarah. For whatever that’s worth.
June 10th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
What would it be like to meet a famous musician or actor or any other successful and famous entertainer?
But suppose they hadn’t won the Hollywood lottery, and they were still struggling?
So you’re at a college party with the rest of your 21 yr old friends. Some guy who looks like he’s 35 or 40 walks in. So you think that guy’s pretty old, but he looks cool by the way he dresses. You wonder what his deal is, so you talk to him.
He mentions he’s in a rock band, and that’s all he does. He’s got more tattoos than everyone combined at the party, and you wonder if your skin will be as leathery when you’re his age. The whole time, he’s smoking like a chimney, while most of your friends don’t smoke at all. You find out he married his first wife when he was 21, but he’s now divorced. In fact, he’s on his third wife. Then the conversation turns to drinking and pot (it is a party, after all), so you think the guy is “young at heart.” But then he mentions he does heroin and coke. A lot. You feel kind of icky just standing in front of him. “What a loser,” you think.
It’s interesting that we idolize famous entertainers who we would shun if they weren’t famous.
June 10th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Haha. Touche, Chris. I hadn’t seen that. Or maybe I blocked it out? I used to love Soundgarden!
Thx for the kind words.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Useless tweets and blurbs are totally flooding the internet now, but when you see something that someone has posted something actually somewhat useful, in the middle of there useless information on the socks they are currently wearing, it somewhat gives it meaning to me. The fact that whatever it is is cool enough to interrupt there daily life cast seems to stick out.
In fact, the reason that i grew interest in Trent and NIN is that randomly people would stop to say “This Nine Inch Nails album is actually pretty darn good”.
Without Trents involvement in the world wide intertubes and hes inner geek i probably wouldn’t have ever thought of checking them out. In no way am i saying the internet made him popular, but its not hurting his rep at all
keep up the awesome work Sarah
June 10th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Joeri, I agree, that person would probably seem like a loser. Is that what you imagine it would be like to meet Trent? He doesn’t sound much like a partier to me.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
well, in all fairness to trent, did you actually HEAR that chris cornell record? i think he was being quite generous with that review.
what i love about trent is that he actually *gets* it. did you check out his digg dialogue? great stuff, that.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Did you read his post on their forums after that quote?
“I had thought a while ago about attempting to start a mainstream public forum that required real verification of it’s participants for purposes of context….For example, if we were discussing drumming techniques and you can see that someone participating in the discussion is a drum instructor vs. a 13 year old kid Googling answers, you’d have the proper context in which to have a potentially valid discussion.”
Um, I don’t think the experiment is flawed, its his understanding of the net. Anonymity is a requirement for growth. Imagine if we had to have an online ID that followed us everywhere we go online. People wouldn’t be allowed to speak out against companies or individuals. Some say the net provides cowards a cover, but I think it ultimately allows freedom of speech for people otherwise stifled by government, corporate, or personal organizations.
Trent is being a crybaby about not being able to have a walled garden. His mission isn’t impossible. As a matter of fact, he could attempt to open up a community that has user verification. Its an expensive idea that would take time to build. Besides, the minute he starts throwing around terms like “mainstream community,” I know he has not really thought the idea through. Its an oxymoron, moron.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
I’m just describing a generic Hollywood-style entertainer. Not Trent Reznor in particular. Besides, I don’t know him personally.
I agree that a good entertainer has to be naturally imaginative and flamboyant, and not follow the straight and narrow career path that most of us take.
Btw, I read that Trent Reznor did have a history of alcohol & drug abuse. Not exactly your run-of-the-mill good citizen. Although I do enjoy his music.
Sarah, you rock!
June 10th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
People are mean on the internet because they can be. There is absolutely no consequence for their actions and words so people feel like they have this right to spew out any insane comment that originates in their head.
Of course they also do it to get reaction and fill their need for attention. Instead of creating something and having thought provoking and intelligent points like Ms. Lane, they’d rather tear others down and get attention through negativity and hateful comments.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
to be completely honest, im not a huge NIN fan. whenever i listen to it, i like it, i like it alot, but thats it. its something i really like, but never really listen to. that said, i am a fan of trent, and i think hes right.
a few years ago, i used to love being involved on forums and other internet hang outs. now a days, as much as ive tried to get involved on the rev3 forums, it never sticks. even when watching TWiF/buzz out loud/any other live online show, im not terribly active in the chat room. i cant even say ive been burned too badly from the trolls, but ive been burned enough to mostly avoid talking to the random strangers online.
i feel like this is a real awkward time for the internet. it feels like theres this power struggle between the people who really just want to have a good time geeking out with people online, and then theres the trolls who come out and make people feel shitty because their parents didnt hug them enough.
anyway sarah, love you, love what you do. keep doing it.
June 10th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
I think the story above is not about trent but a close analog. Maybe a situation happed sort of like that to the person above and they are trying to make a broader point about what is cool and what isn’t
Mr. Reznor did say that on Twitter about Mr. Cornell and it was widely reported. So maybe he got a little back lash from that and a few other things and the thing that bugs him is not losers on the “internets” and the “Webosphere” and now he feels not so good about thousands of people hearing him say something out loud that would be ok in private but in public make him sound not so nice.
Maybe he doesn’t know how to use his inside voice. In any case he does do a lot of nice stuff around here in NOLA to help people so I don’t think poorly of him. I just think he is having a problem understanding the series of tubes that comprise what you kids call the world wide webs.
June 10th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
I think this post reveals a couple ABCs about one Sarah Lane. =) A partial list of the ABCs include:
amazing, beautiful, caring & considerate, fantastic, gorgeous & great, hearted, intelligent, smart, thoughtful, etc.
It nearly broke my heart and made me want to cry when reading what that mean girl publicly tweeted about you and how you’re used to that kind of stuff. About the mean girl: what a twit! Twits ought not tweet! =P
This is just a presumption from personal experience but it seems that you say you’ve gotten used to that kind of thing because you have a heart that feels, a heart that’s fragile. I don’t know about what the world would think about this, but I think we need more people with your kind of heart. A fragile heart that can feel has the potential to be awfully considerate and kind, which would result in less mean people, and twits that shouldn’t tweet.
Maybe this could be one of the reasons why some people are jerks – they don’t care to feel, to think about how others feel. If this isn’t considered selfishness, I’m not sure what is!
I agree with you about disagreeing with the notion that “idiots rule”. I feel that this conclusion was arrived out of a type of despair. Instead of ruling, idiots, jerks, and other inconsiderate people (mean girls and twits included) just seem to dominate and be the majority. Honestly, I really hope this isn’t the case. I hope the majority of people out there are those like you that care and are thoughtful, but unfortunately, very few can find the words to express their thoughts like you. This reminds me of another ABC about you:
a very rare and special exception that’s a blessing and gift to us! =)
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us!!!
June 10th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
I think the point above about it being easy to be mean online is true. But that’s really just an extension of what’s acceptable in society today. Society has a mean streak and all forms of media are a reflection of that (internet, tabloids, mainstream media, etc). Society revels in anger and mean behavior, one look at reality tv will show that.
What I do online is the same thing I do offline. I ignore/refuse to acknowledge people who are mean/derogatory/hateful because it’s my attention that they want. I do my best to wipe anything I’ve read/seen from them from my memory. I wish I was more successful at it than I am because I certainly remember the slights I’ve received as often as I remember praise. I can only imagine how it would be if I was a public figure.
I guess the gist of my view is that giving up is never really the answer. As a parent, I can’t afford to give up the fight for what’s right, even when I know I can’t change the world. But I can do all I can do to make sure my little part of the world succeeds.
June 10th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
One thing Trent does possess vs. us small fry is a large audience… which can be focused like a laser at awful people. If he said “@jackass is being an asshole, I’m blocking him” he’d instantly have 8,000 more blocks against that user and probably @twitter investigating @jackasses jackassery.
I have heard that twitter is supposed to start requiring more stringent sign-up requirements, but it remains to be seen how well that’ll work. I have had less robofollowers in the past month or two, though.
June 10th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
1) I think some places filter well.
Ex: The Comment Threads at http://thetruthaboutcars.com . -Sometimes capricious, sometimes a bit censor-y, but they post the rules clearly and do not let things degrade into a Flamewar.
-> So: It’s all about finding/defining a sandbox that is sized+equipped appropriately that you can control it and raise the Signal/Noise Ratio as high as is reasonable.
1 example of this is in tool form is TweetDeck. I can auto-follow-back my followers, but also create a group of the people with the most+best to say.
and
2) You will never eradicate Insecure, Self-Conscious, Nasty, Trolls from the planet. -That’s just people being people. Bad day, bad week/month/year, cranky, poor, envious, jealous, self-critical, abusive parents, whatever.
You don’t squash your good emotional capacities if you can learn to ‘let it roll off’ a bit ++And Most Of All: Recognize The Source, and handicap the comment/vibe for what it is.
You can’t go around internalizing everyone’s frame as some kind of jugment on you. If the comment doesn’t have any % honestly usable feedback, then just assume the person is insecure or self-conscious.
Turn it into a bit of a Game. Ask, “What kind of person does/says X?”
None of the secure, happy, fulfilled, self-actualized people I know try to raise their value by lowering others’ (which never raises it anyway).
I think if anyone has some kind of irrationally immediate negative reaction to you; -all things being equal, it’s probably fair to say they’re either insecure, self-conscious, or an idiot.
+By re/acting that way, they’re only exposing themselves as such; they’re not changing you.
June 11th, 2009 at 2:41 am
Oh so true. I honestly don’t go thru life purposely trying to be a Suzy Sunshine. I just don’t understand why yo have to be mean. Naturally you’re going to think negative thoughts about people from time to time, but you have to filter what you say. I said this many a time. Not everyone cares what you have to say. And why be mean just to be mean. I think many people have grown up with this belief of “I’m just being honest”. Plus the whole fact of that online anonymity. The feel like people feel they can say whatever is on their mind and you don’t always have to. Now granted, I like giving people a hard time as much as the next guy, but if I ever felt like I hurt someone’s feeling or offended them in any way I’d feel awful. I for one want to say, Sarah, I enjoy hearing what you have to say. I feel like you’re just an honest good genuine person and that’s what I appreciate about you. There aren’t many of us out there.
June 15th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
I consider myself a regular gamer. I’m not great at it, but I enjoy sitting down, and playing a good game. I am a huge fan of Team Fortress 2. One of the primary reasons is the lack of the typical jerkiness (is that a word?!) that you get in many other games. After almost every game, the chat window fills up with ‘gg’ (good game for non-gamers), or ‘awesome game’. When somebody starts mouthing off, or just in general acting like a jerk, almost everyone else on the server will immediately defend the person on the receiving end of the immature ridicule. It only takes one person acting like an ass to ruin an otherwise fun session of a game, or really any other situation in life, so its nice to see people decide that they would rather have fun, and enjoy themselves than mindlessly and angrily vent on a perfect stranger.
July 12th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Perhaps this approach will help. I spent about 20 years as a radio and television broadcaster. These are the numbers, as far as broadcasting is concerned: generally speaking, only about 1 percent of the entire audience ever offers any feedback or participation to any given broadcast or broadcaster. As I do more online, I know that any obnoxious negativity I will run into is always going to be an extremely small fraction of my total audience.
August 18th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
To be honest, it seems a lot of ppl are drawing the wrong conclusion. Not all people on the internet being mean are idiots. For instance, if I was to call Trent a bloated, narcesitic, overly indulged hack that would be mean. It does, however, remain non-idiotic. This idea of censorship proponded in most posts and the original article is evidence of non-thought. Adversity creates, homogeny stiffles. If Trent had not been beaten up in high school he’d be less angsty, and that angry emo man-child wouldn’t have made the “music” that people weep to. It’s important to realise everyone needs to vent. I’d much rather some careless, pointless or even aggresive text than for Aaron the postal worker not have an outlet. Extreme example sure, but I think you get the point.
September 20th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
So right a book about it why dont u
October 4th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Children play-acting at being adults that’s all the trollers are. Even if they have physically matured to adulthood, it has been proven that most people don’t evolve mentally beyond a high-school mentality. My belief is that these kids all grow up in communities where taking pointless shots at each other, name-calling, tearing down other people etc is the norm. They don’t know any other way to communicate than by calling their buddy a dork or a geek or by calling a girl a bitch or worse and this flows over into their online expression because instead of learning to intelligently articulate their own ideas or that of others, say utilizing a famous quote to punctuate their point, they resort to “shooting the messenger” especially if they feel threatened by an intelligent statement or opinion. If you have nothing of validity to add to a debate, you need to sit at the kiddie table, the adults are talking.